Episode 32: When Your Boat Sinks | Life Doesn't Go as Planned

In this episode, we explore what happens when your boat sinks (life doesn't go to plan). Carla's actual boat sank and she talks about what she saw as that experience unfolded. We meandered and pretty soon found ourselves looking at impermanence: how we know deep down, the fact that: everything changes, yet we try to live as if it doesn't. We try to control our lives, circumstances, other people, and our feelings. So if we know we cannot ultimately control life, what gets in the way of just dropping that need to control?

Here’s what we explored:-

  • Carla tells the story of her little, much-loved boat, called Freida, which recently sank and has to be scrapped

  • she reflects on the emotions she felt as the experience unfolded

  • she noticed how others' calmness and kindness really helped her nervous system relax little by little

  • she tells how she remembered the story of the Chinese Farmer who meets the twists and turns of life with, 'maybe, maybe not', even though his neighbors rush to exclaim on how wonderful, or how terrible, each event must be.

  • she recognizes that the Freida was very old, not in the best condition, and appreciates how she's learned a great deal over this time

  • lots of lessons: about maybe, maybe not, non-attachment, impermanence, understanding privilege, kindness of others, navigating the nervous system, seeing resourcefulness and resilience

  • Freida is gone, she can't be revived

  • 'we'll see', has been Juliet's catchphrase of the pandemic

  • the capacity for drama is always available for us humans, we can make a drama out of anything, but maybe our appetite for drama varies

  • there is drama we imagine, we read about, drama happening elsewhere, then drama right in front of us that looks more substantial

  • as Carla experienced this episode, there was a real movement of emotions, maybe helped by the lack of judgment

  • how we remember things is constantly changing: memory is not fixed. That's a wonderful thing and gets Juliet curious

  • Carla recounts how she sees her parents in a totally different light these days

  • she understands where her mother was coming from now and wishes she could have had more grace with her when she was young

  • our memories are not accurate: they are our perception of what happened

  • Carla gives an example of 'remembering' naming their dog, Banana when she was three years old

  • in her fifties, she discovered, in fact, her sister named the dog Banana, not her!

  • discovering that our perception of the world is not accurate, can unravel us a little. what else might not be true?

  • the story of our lives is made up of highlights and lowlights and these are highly selective!

  • there's no objective truth of life, nothing you could map, as with the course of a ship

  • if that's true of our own lives, how on earth do we think we could really know any other person's life?

  • how do those stories capture the heart and essence of another person, or ourselves?

  • our memories are impermanent, as is everything in life

  • Carla gives an example of one of her clients who worries about his young children barging into work calls

  • the pressure to present a perfect image causes suffering (looks like its fed from social media)

  • to model being human, being vulnerable and real, is a very powerful form of leadership

  • what if an interruption is, in fact, a gift?

  • at a deep level, we know we can't control everything, can we just drop the controlling?

  • Carla sees people do believe they can control their lives, thinking, if they have eg enough money, the right relationship, the right address then they will feel secure and successful

  • the recent severe storms created devastation in affluent neighborhoods of the US. A stark reminder that we have far less control than we think we do

  • the more we can drop the illusion of control, the more ease we can find

  • Carla noticed she was able to go with the unfolding of the boat saga (mostly), even finding herself laughing at times

  • showing up more authentically and vulnerably is a gift to those around us

  • it is toxic (and exhausting) to always be pretending. It is damaging and a burden. Can we drop it?

  • we know we're not going to live forever, you might want your home to be your forever home but we know we cannot guarantee that, we know our work or businesses thriving is not something we can guarantee

  • in the final analysis we will lose everything: either through death or something else

  • even though we know that, we live as if this wasn't the case

  • what do we get out of living that way?

  • it takes up a lot of mental energy, is it partly just habit?

  • if you correlate working hard and stress as a sign you are doing the 'right' thing, then trying to control could feel 'good' or at least comfortable

  • what would be left, if we weren't trying to control everything?

  • the primitive part of the brain wants to keep us safe even though safety is an illusion

  • Carla talks about the birds who live in the present moment, without thought about the past or future

  • they don't make stories about themselves, life, or time

  • what gets in the way of living more in the present moment?

  • we don't see or trust our own resilience

  • we don't trust the natural order (God, higher intelligence, Life Force)

  • primitive fear of being kicked out of the tribe

  • we submit to perceived expectations that look as if they are important for our security

  • being at the mercy of those expectations can create a great deal of pressure

  • we can spend a great deal of mental energy, wondering whether we're doing the right thing or having the right inner experience especially in comparison with our peers, people we admire or our competitors

  • do we have to have our experiences validated by others all the time?

  • what if we plow our own furrow?

  • can you notice the times in your lives when you've acted on a nudge or instinct, a quiet knowing without needing others' approval?

  • what takes us away from listening to, appreciating, and honoring those quiet knowings?

  • we get distracted by our own busy thinking or the business out in the world

  • can you notice how one state feels quiet and calm; the other urgent and racy. Is urgent and racy a signal to wake up to the fact we're caught up?

  • when we struggle to follow our own path because we fear shame and judgment (our own and others), we exist with a lot of mental burden which is exhausting

  • it can take courage to march to your own rhythm

  • the world needs people to show up and follow their own instincts

  • an invitation for our listeners to observe and get curious if you could drop the conflict, what would happen if you did?

  • would there be more ease and flow?

  • keep sitting on the bank of ourselves and let go, again and again

  • to be in the presence of people who are utterly themselves is an invitation to others to settle and find that in themselves.

Thank you for listening. If you love the podcast, tell us why and please share the podcast link on social. Questions? Topics? We love questions and topic suggestions. Send them via the comments.

Episode 31: Procrastination: What Can We See with Fresh Eyes?

In this episode, Juliet and I explore one of our favorite topics: procrastination! A long-time companion for us both, we get curious about what we might see fresh about this juicy topic. It was great fun to explore how our relationship to procrastination keeps evolving. Expectations and agreements also guest-starred in this episode.

Here’s what we explored:

  • what if procrastination isn't a problem?

  • what if, instead, it's a superpower!

  • what if in fact, you need to race the clock to get inspired and motivated like Carla?

  • what if we stopped judging and making ourselves wrong for procrastinating?

  • we invite you to experiment for yourselves

  • what if you lean into your procrastination and harness that energy

  • on the other hand for some racing against the clock adds so much more stress

  • so what's up with that?

  • we unconsciously accept the idea that procrastination is a 'bad thing'

  • it's not what we do (or don't do) it's what we make of what we do that creates suffering or ease

  • when we argue with ourselves (and our experience) we just drain ourselves, using up tonnes of mental energy

  • 'deadlinitus', any other fellow sufferers?

  • sometimes changing the word can help e.g. incubation

  • sometimes we procrastinate because the project isn't ready or we're not ready

  • begin to notice how often new information comes in which changes the way you tackle a project or fundamentally changes the direction

  • if you hadn't procrastinated you wouldn't have caught that fresh input

  • in how many areas do we have invisible assumptions and beliefs which set us up for mental conflict?

  • when we get caught in turmoil it can be helpful to take a look further back, what is behind your 'yes'

  • why did you say yes?

  • maybe deep down we don't want to do it, we can't do it or we don't have the resources to do it

  • we may know intuitively that we want to say no, but over-ride it and say yes

  • obligations and expectations can cause us to say yes when we 'no' is more aligned

  • some people say yes to everything and can get resentful but still follow through

  • some people say no to everything, protective of their energy and capacity, and maybe miss out

  • in either case, slowing down and checking in with ourselves can help get more clarity about what we do and don't want to do

  • wouldn't it be lovely if we got in the habit of saying, 'let me get back to you, in business, in families, at school?

  • it would be a model for others, our partners, our kids, employees, and our clients

  • asking for space to get clear in yourself can be so helpful for you as an individual

  • even more helpful if you are a leader

  • the willingness to not know is the sign of a great leader

  • what if we turn not knowing on its head, instead of being a negative thing, it is a superpower

  • what if 'not knowing' is a fertile space

  • when we step away from the battle in our head we get to sit on the bank on ourselves

  • what if we made pausing, reflecting, sitting on the bank of ourselves, the role of experts and leaders?

  • at times we procrastinate because we are frightened, afraid to dive in, then we can scare ourselves more and more and when that happens, Carla finds it better to take care of the task

  • when the unfinished task sits on your mind, it can get VERY heavy

  • Juliet used to pull all-nighters at university to finish essays and then when she was a copywriter, she realized she had to find a new way

  • she came up with a very structured way of tackling multiple copywriting projects

  • all-nighters were very adrenaline-fueled

  • the structured process was very tightly controlled

  • nowadays Juliet has less on her mind around procrastination so it isn't so excruciating

  • we spend a lot of energy trying to curate our lives to look presentable to others (as we imagine they want)

  • expectations always disappoint and can make you feel bad

  • expectations are also not very clear, you have to try and suss it out

  • agreements on the other hand are co-created and so much clearer

  • when we have expectations we often don't account for the other person's perspective, everyone is living in their separate reality

  • to make good agreements, you have to be clear and willing to involve the other person and be willing to change the agreement

  • expectations are not always voiced so you are asking someone else to be a mind reader

  • when you get into a conversation to make agreements, you may discover things you didn't know or don't like

  • murky expectations can also be part of why we procrastinate

  • when we're lost in murky resentments everything is going to feel yuck

  • sometimes you start a project full of resentment but after half an hour you notice it's gone. Our thoughts have shifted; we are absorbed in the endeavor

  • other times, we start a project and keep distracting ourselves, unwilling to stay with the task, the resentment hangs around like a bad smell

  • perfectionism can be a cause of procrastination

  • Carla has found that going for 80% perfect has been really helpful

  • separate realities is a great place to explore in more and more places and more and more depth

  • what if we met everyone's experience with curiosity?

  • what if we met our procrastination with a bunch of curiosity, not judgment or shame?

Quotes and References

  • Kolbe Index

  • 'I love deadlines, I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by', Douglas Adams

  • Steve Chandler, Supercoach, audio Expectations versus agreements

  • 'Expectations are resentments under construction' Anne Lamott

Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your procrastination stories, so drop us a line. If you like this podcast, please rate, review and share it. It all helps spread the word, we appreciate it.

Episode 30: Getting Vulnerable: Dazed and Confused

In this episode, we took our time to decide if we wanted to explore getting vulnerable. As our podcast is called Riffing on Realness, we decided to go ahead and explore vulnerability. When your primitive brain gets activated, you can get scared, dazed, and confused.

Here’s what we explored:

  • when we feel embarrassed we can get dazed and confused because we feel out of control

  • when we feel very exposed our primitive brain can get triggered telling us we're going to get kicked out of our tribe

  • even if others think we are vulnerable and share lots of deep things, in fact, we may still be guarded and keeping tight control

  • we can be vulnerable on our own terms

  • the feeling of being ambushed can be intense and disorientating

  • the idea that someone has found a chink in the armor

  • the desire to control can be invisible to us

  • seeing the flight reaction in action can be startling

  • seeing how defended we are can be a shock

  • being very defended, excessively independent can be a trauma response

  • in being so defended, we miss out on so much of the good, the true, and the beautiful in life

  • are we curating our life for others (consciously or unconsciously)?

  • we may curate ourselves as wise, rich, and loving when there is also a messy side which we try to hide

  • sometimes we dress up judgment as curiosity and if we get caught out it can throw us into a spin because the danger signal gets triggered

  • we are all just human; we make mistakes, fall into judgment

  • we can end up hiding parts of ourselves

  • we can end up trying to stage-manage our lives

  • avoiding difficult situations can feel like a practical response

  • we can end up feeling some parts of ourselves are not allowed

  • noticing how low feelings can just come in even when we're having a good day

  • but they can also go away again

  • when we are dazed and confused, it's a great time to sit on the bank of ourselves and be compassionate

  • sometimes when our primitive brain is triggered, we can bring on our executive function and over-ride it. Other times we can't.

  • when we don't have to bring a bunch of meaning and judgment to it

  • if we can leave it be, it tends to dissipate quicker

  • we can question 'what just happened?', 'why am I feeling like this?'

  • for Juliet when she gets reactive with 'difficult' people, the mind can go to all the things the other person has or hasn't done

  • when we see that the reactivity is often not about the situation in front of us (unless there is real and present danger)

  • the mind can get scrambled when it can't come up with a story

  • but this can be an opening

  • getting curious about vulnerability.

  • our identities and security don't come from our possessions, success, or our looks

  • when that illusion gets popped it can be devastating

  • when we've lost everything (or when we haven't) we can live in fear of losing things

  • yet losing things and bouncing back is resilience

  • there's a lot of freedom when we see through the illusion

  • sometimes when we bump up against our illusions it can be just a lovely letting go

  • other times it can be disorientating, like when a big chunk of the iceberg falls off

  • there are times we may need to be defended, like Carla's dog Pedro, after the surgery

  • it's appropriate to be compassionate with ourselves when we get triggered

  • disconnection from one another, from the earth, and ultimately there is disconnection from our own spirit/souls

  • we miss out on the richness and variety of life possible if many people are going around defended against the harshness of the world

  • time to learn each others' songs

Episode 29: How Good Can it Get?

In this episode, Juliet and I explore the 'upper limit' on our happiness. When things are going well ,we can get afraid of the 'other shoe' dropping and that keeps us from enjoying the present. Is the upper limit real? We look at trauma responses and explore what we see that might be helpful.

Here’s what we explored:

  • we can let future worries steal current happiness

  • the other shoe IS going to drop and we can deal with that when it happens

  • Carla has noticed how her business is going really well even though she isn't working really hard

  • we can feel uncomfortable with things going 'too' well

  • we may get used to a level of low-level anxiety, checking for potential danger

  • we may have a belief, success only comes from working really really hard

  • then when life is going well and it feels easy, one reaction is, 'what's wrong?'

  • Brene Brown talks about tamping down her excitement and joy at eg an invitation to speak in case it didn't work out

  • she realized she was robbing herself of a ton of joy in the moment by not fully feeling

  • not wanting to look a fool if things don't work out

  • how many other places are we denying ourselves appreciation and enjoyment of the good stuff?

  • when we decide something is a failure we can deny ourselves the joy we experienced along the way, eg when a relationship ends

  • it's the journey not the destination

  • relationships end all the time, for all sorts of reasons

  • when we have a fixed idea of how things should go, we miss out on so much and create suffering

  • every relationship includes disappointment and joy, can we fully feel all of it?

  • we really have no idea how things 'should be' but we can get attached to our beliefs of how it should be

  • how could we possibly know ahead of time, all that is in store for us?

  • how good can it get when we take away some of our labels?

  • how good can it get when we calm our primitive brain that looks for danger?

  • it can feel unsafe to dwell on the good, the true, and the beautiful

  • but then we can often live in an experience of low or high-level threat

  • Carla helps clients to distinguish between where there is real danger and where there is not

  • we can look through the lens of our stories and construct a fearful future based on that which gives us the experience of constant threat

  • an example of someone who fears being burgled despite living in a relatively safe neighborhood, in time, she was burgled - what can we see in that?

  • another example of a woman who had a lot of anxiety about visiting her mother who tended to criticize her. She expected to rake her over the coals because she'd put on weight

  • we can notice we are living this stressful story again and again in our imagination

  • we can notice how we might show up when we've been running this story over and over again: stressed, defended

  • Carla asked, can you drop the story and go with the most open heart possible?

  • what about people who go about defended because they've been attacked, are we saying they created their experience?

  • there's a danger in making the victim the problem

  • recognizing our thinking is generating the visceral response is massively helpful

  • you can notice this eg if you are afraid of flying, notice how you can experience all the anxiety of flying while sitting at your kitchen table, simply by thinking about it. That's your imagination.

  • once you begin to see the power of the mind it opens up space

  • the next question is, 'do I have to pay attention to these thoughts?'

  • for those who suffer trauma, the primitive brain response can be very powerful, the rational brain can seem to go offline - no time or space available.

  • if we can catch on to what's going on when we are trauma triggered, it is helpful

  • it can give a little bit of space between the thinker and the response

  • we can recognize what might help at that moment eg stroking our pet, getting out in nature, talking to a friend

  • trying to use the rational mind to argue with a fearful, intense response is usually unhelpful

  • there is a deeper place, the bank of ourselves, looking towards that, helps find equilibrium

  • when we get eyes and ears for that space, we begin to appreciate it more and more

  • as we notice and appreciate the space more and more, the intensity and frequency of intense reactions can begin to lessen

  • as space opens up, a sense of choice about dropping our attention may become available

  • being a slow learner is a superpower because we learn things so well!

  • the mind is so powerful and our understanding of it can get more and more subtle

  • it is very difficult to see anything new in the middle of a trauma response because you are in a defended, fearful state.

  • on top of a strong fight, flight, freeze, faint mode we can add a whole bunch of scary thinking about the future: I'm broken, why am I like this, I'm never going to get over this, why can't I get over this?

  • this type of thinking intensifies the stress response

  • if we explore the bank of ourselves when we are quieter we are more resourced and more likely to have insights into the nature of thought

  • the difference between pain and suffering

  • a trauma response can be the pain; the suffering comes with all the judgment we add on top of it when we analyze and make all kinds of meaning out of it - eg why haven't I got over this?

  • as we recognize what's happening, eg we are having a strong stress response, we get space to leave it alone, to heal (or dissolve)

  • like a wound, if we keep digging around in it, we will prevent the cut from naturally healing

  • we are made to handle life, keep looking in this direction

Quotes and References

  • Find Brene Brown on YouTube

Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your questions or reflections so drop us a line. If you like this podcast, please rate, review and share it. It all helps spread the word, we appreciate it.

Episode 28: Riffing on Freedom

In this episode, Juliet and I explore freedom. What is freedom? We have all kinds of ideas about freedom. In the US, when we think of freedom, we often think of financial freedom. A question we might explore is 'how much is enough?'

Here’s what we explored:

  • we have lots of ideas about where freedom lies

  • we may think lots of money would give us freedom

  • Carla notices financially highly successful people experience high motivation when they begin their enterprises. It was fun

  • Carla notices the same people can get weighed down worrying about maintaining their finances, scared of losing their money

  • we may think more time would give us more freedom

  • some people turn to self-employment thinking they would be free of the tyranny of the 9-5

  • yet sometimes micro-entrepreneurs found they were working longer hours and had less freedom

  • when we make changes to 'get more freedom', the reality doesn't always match up to our vision

  • it's interesting how we get caught in an illusion that different circumstances will give us freedom

  • there is another kind of freedom that everyone wants, freedom of mind

  • many of us have a negative inner narrative that is dramatic and critical

  • when we take our thinking less seriously, we find freedom: to see more possibilities, enjoy life more, and feel more alive

  • there are no set of circumstances: person, place, job, business, hobby that can give you peace

  • when we make the mistake of thinking that changing our circumstances will give us peace of mind we get caught in cycles of perpetually chasing 'better' circumstances

  • freedom doesn't come from getting stuff or getting rid of our responsibilities, it is a deeper freedom, it comes from within

  • the idea of a heavenly afterlife led Carla to believe she had to gut it out here on earth and get her reward later

  • freedom of mind doesn't mean we don't try to change systems of oppression or get free of oppression

  • we can use spiritual seeking to bypass life, we can become detached and in denial

  • you get disconnected and startlingly unempathetic

  • it comes, like all experiences, from the power of Thought

  • freedom of mind looks like not holding on tight, trying to control our experience, it's more about opening to the aliveness of experience

  • what gets in the way of opening to experience is the belief that we can't face loss

  • loss of things, people, physical capacity, and ultimately death

  • freedom to accept the human parts of ourselves as well as the divine parts

  • spiritual bypassing can deny the messiness of our human experience

  • this urge to only share our wins, our magazine smiles, denies the screw-ups in our life

  • when people share their messy sides, it feels more authentic, more trustworthy

  • It's not either divine or human, we're both human and divine

  • when things are in opposition, the conflict or tension takes all the oxygen

  • then we look to escape either into base human desires or spiritual detachment

  • we miss so much when we get caught in the opposition of things

  • when we open to both, the divine enriches our humanness and vice versa

  • you can connect to the divine parts of you without all the dogma and judgment

  • when Juliet went offline, she discovered so much more time available

  • it's similar to when we stop paying attention from all our controlling, judgemental, insecure, constricting thoughts: there's so much more space

  • when Carla lived in Vermont with limited internet, she felt really open and enjoyed nature more than before

  • it's similar to what happens when the noise in our minds settles down

  • we've lost connection to ourselves

  • the root of freedom is connection with our deepest self

Quotes and References

  • Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl

  • Grit and Grace by Ken Wilbur

Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your questions or reflections so drop us a line. If you like this podcast, please rate, review and share it. It all helps spread the word, we appreciate it.

Episode 27: Celebration isn't just for Special Occasions

In this episode, Juliet and I explore what it is to celebrate and how we can bring more celebration into our lives. It may seem there's not much to celebrate with all that is going on in the world. When we find ourselves overly serious, celebration can be a way to mitigate that.

Here’s what we explored:

  • often we celebrate the big events but not our successes along the way

  • are we rushing on to the next thing, without taking time to celebrate?

  • when we complete something, celebrating can replenish us

  • the brain's negativity bias can keep us from enjoying the good, the true, and the beautiful

  • can we intentionally look for the good, the true, and the beautiful?

  • it can feel a bit threatening to the primitive brain that wants to stay in hyper-vigilant mode

  • when we feel good it can induce a bit of panic, fearing the other shoe is going to drop

  • well, the other shoe is going to drop!

  • if we worry less, we are more resourced to deal with it when it happens

  • to be relaxed is to drop your guard - over-ride the primitive urge

  • celebrating is a way to intentionally over-ride that

  • we feel a little more inspiration, a surge of energy, a little more motivation

  • the sound and feel of celebration is just such a lovely invitation

  • 'all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy'

  • if we wait for the world to give us something to celebrate and stay in vigilance, we will only see what's wrong

  • what we bring to life, we get: bring celebration to life and we find things to celebrate

  • does reward have to be based on productivity, output, speed, and numbers?

  • what if we celebrated waking up, the fact the sun rose, we have clean air?

  • celebration is connected to wonder

  • when you wonder at the miracle of Life, it releases so much fun, gratitude, and joy

  • we can become burdened by the responsibility of taking care of others in business or our family and lose our ability to enjoy our lives

  • we've made a false correlation between 'hard work' and output

  • we falsely believe that if we're not working hard, there must be something wrong

  • when we believe that seriousness and stress are necessary for productivity, we live in the feeling of seriousness and stress

  • when we look to enjoy what we do, we'll get that feeling of enjoyment

  • sounds too simple but try it for yourselves

  • we learn best from play

  • often our initial success is done without too much thinking

  • celebration can restore that playfulness

  • when we don't think there's anything on it we are more responsive

  • when our state of mind goes down in the basement, everything looks difficult and very compelling

  • in that state of mind, our view gets constricted and we get exactly that experience of things being difficult

  • when we are light-hearted, our mind is open and we get in the flow and things feel easy and fun

  • we experience that putting this podcast together

  • fascinating to see how our business can thrive without the experience of stress and struggle

  • interruptions for example can become a big problem if we get really serious about them

  • if we don't take interruptions so seriously we can surf the wave of interruptions and be flexible, even find unexpected treasure in interruptions

  • a shift in perspective can be so helpful

  • it's interesting to look closely at what we are telling ourselves about productivity

  • are we missing the heart of things, the possibility of connection and joy in every interaction

  • our opinions get us into trouble

  • what is before our opinions?

  • when we get less fascinated with our opinions, we get to smell the roses more and enjoy life more

  • connected conversations are so nourishing

  • when we are not feeling connected with ourselves and Life, celebration can be a way of connecting with divine spirit

  • Carla and Juliet are in the business of connection

  • when we are constricted, we feel more separate and so the primitive brain responses get louder

  • when we are in connected conversation, we psychologically relax and we get access to more wisdom

  • we can notice this with pets: we don't have so much thinking, so we get to enjoy them

  • if we look before thought and feeling, we can find more space

  • the sky is like our essence, it is always there, storm clouds, like thoughts and feelings, come and go

  • when we measure how we're doing by how we feel, we are missing the ever-present sky

  • there's less to do when we realise thoughts and feelings are just passing through. No need to comment on them, rearrange them or figure out where they came from.

  • as humans, we have all kinds of thoughts and feelings all day long

  • we can bring celebration to life. Try it!

Quotes and References

  • Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl

  • Long Strange Trip - a documentary about Jerry Garcia and The Grateful Dead

  • In Quest of the Pearl by Sydney Banks

  • Rocket Man 2019 film about Elton John's early years

  • Pinky Piglet the blind, deaf dog on Facebook

Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your questions or reflections so drop us a line. If you like this podcast, please rate, review and share it. It all helps spread the word we appreciate it.

Episode 26: Getting Playful Amid Chaos

NOTE: We had a few technical issues with the sound. We appreciate your patience.

In this episode, we explore playfulness, something we can easily overlook if our minds are full of heaviness. Research shows people learn best through play and we get curious about how we can access a more playful vibe. Even those of us who tend towards seriousness usually have a playful, silly side. Yet we can feel uncomfortable around silliness. We wanted to explore what's up with that.

Here’s what we explored:

  • what about having a little bit of fun every day?

  • sometimes there can be a kind of pride around being 'sophisticated'

  • silliness can feel like being out of control

  • a light heart is so much more helpful in so called 'serious' situations

  • when you get down and serious with others who are down and serious, everything just gets more heavy and serious

  • do we just need permission to bring more playfulness to life?

  • a light heart invites others to lighten up

  • we're not talking about tone-deaf joking around when others are suffering

  • light-hearted memes and gifs in the midst of difficult situations can bring a moment of lightness and relief

  • those moments of lightness and relief open space for fresh thinking

  • seriousness doesn't feel too good and is often a barrier to understanding

  • a lighter heart opens self and others to more openness, curiosity, and tenderness

  • the brain loves play: we feel better and find more flow

  • how does playfulness help the bottom line?

  • you have to rest and restore to be effective at looking after the bottom line

  • is playfulness a superpower?

  • a definition of success: being happy with who we are, what we have, and what we are doing, right now

  • when you allow yourself to enjoy what you're doing, it isn't just a more pleasurable experience, it impacts what you're doing

  • innocently we say, I can't be happy until I'm good at this task/job/project?

  • we may notice that playfulness is easy in some areas of life, eg.photography for Carla

  • in other areas we may bring lots of fear and judgment to things, believing we have to get it right

  • when we 'enjoy' tasks, it's simply because we don't have too much thinking on our mind

  • it's cool to notice we may be holding heavy, serious perceptions about a task which we aren't actually doing right now

  • sometimes we hold these perceptions in our imagination and experience all the seriousness of our thinking, mistakenly believing it is the task giving us the experience

  • a great question for journaling: what would this look like, if it was easy?

  • you bring your state of mind to life not the other way round

  • if you are in an irritated state of mind, everything in your awareness will feel irritating

  • you are literally living in the experience of irritation

  • any moment has the possibility to be anything in your experience

  • you can't focus on the problem and the solution at the same time

  • problem thinking creates an experience of problems

  • perfectionism is a joy killer

  • getting something 80% done, is good enough

  • you can always refine and upgrade

  • when we are tight and serious and constricted around something, it is hard going

  • as an experiment: what would it be like to go into something totally playful and curious. Try it with something that is not high stakes

  • when we deeply realise the wholeness at our core, we get less interested in striving to be perfect

  • people want a richer internal life, why wouldn't they?

  • Carla is seeing clients recognising the toxicity of the perfectionist culture and she encourages them to get more real

  • finding the courage to go into something with more authenticity. Dropping the masks

  • stand in your own knowing when you get ideas that seem left field

  • this time is fertile ground for innovation: for new ideas to emerge, for people who don't consider themselves as leaders to come forward

  • when we are being authentic and true to what resonates, people are attracted to that

  • they are attracted to the quiet knowing rather than the idea itself

  • we're here to invite each other into a quieter space and what people will do in that space is up to them

  • it's an exciting time

  • we invite listeners to experiment with more playfulness in their lives

Quotes and References

  • Painting with John (HBO series)

  • Kintsugi - Japanese art of repairing broken pottery with golden lacquer

Episode 25: Simplicity Part 2 | Enjoying What We Have

In this episode, Juliet and I explore simplicity in terms of material things. Rather than leaning into a political discussion about material wealth, today, we're curious about simplicity and our relationship to what we have. We get curious about what is enough and why we celebrate people with vast material wealth.

Here’s what we explored:

  • high achievers can feel excited to have certain things eg the right watch

  • but also there's a pressure to live in certain places, wear the right things

  • and they report some incongruity and concern around these urges

  • having lived large and small, Carla's preference is to live in a small, uncluttered space

  • we can get caught in a misunderstanding that our security or happiness rests in having certain things

  • it's interesting to notice the arc of desire, anticipation, and satisfaction

  • the satisfaction remains for a while but before long there'll be something else glittering on the horizon and so the cycle begins again

  • deep down we know wellbeing and security doesn't reside in stuff

  • if you deeply know wellbeing and happiness come from within then there's greater freedom around stuff - you can get and enjoy things with a lighter heart

  • what meaning are you putting on your possessions?

  • our material wealth says nothing about who we are at our essence

  • when we confuse where our wellbeing rests, we suffer, feeling tense around getting and keeping material wealth

  • we're inundated with messages that point us in every direction (except within) to find happiness

  • it isn't the availability of stuff but our perception of material possessions that gives us our experience

  • we relate to material possessions through our own stories, conditioning, and beliefs and this is often the source of our angst

  • tune in, before all our stories and from that still place, what is your feeling about this item?

  • Carla's story about make up illustrates how our stories can fall away and when they do our behavior may change

  • when we realize we are doing things, acquiring things, or presenting ourselves in ways that feel off, it is because deep down we know we have all we need inside so putting so much importance on stuff doesn't resonate

  • the freedom comes when we don't have so much riding on what we have, then we can get things that appeal to us and just enjoy them

  • the feeling of how we live moment to moment gives us our experience; not our possessions

  • as we understand deeper and deeper how our experience gets created, more and more of our stories get visible to us

  • the masks begin to drop away more and more and we get more real

  • the divine, the mundane, and the messiness are all part of who we are

  • the experience you are having at this moment is all you have: some feel lousy, some feel great

  • mostly we meet our experience through the complexity of layers and layers of stories and so life looks difficult and complex

  • our stories can act as barriers to others, increasing the feeling of separation

  • the super-rich often remove themselves from close contact with their community believing that gives them a better experience of life. Does it?

  • we all have periods of feeling insecure about relationships, jobs, money whatever our level of material wealth

  • the richness of experience available from within is in a different league to the buzz of a fancy meal or a nice car

  • as we discover inner peace, contentment, and joy that isn't dependent on circumstance, we get to enjoy everything more because there is less on it

  • it goes way deeper and is way more nourishing than the short term dopamine hit of a new purchase

  • what you seek does not exist outside of yourself: it is within

  • a definition of success: being happy with who you are, what you have, and what you do

  • when you start with being happy right where you are, you create more space, more possibility

  • happiness is available in any situation: in good times and bad times

  • when we are scared of losing things, it's a sign we are confused about where wellbeing truly comes from

  • once we realize where well-being resides, there is so much more freedom to play the game of life

Quotes and References

  • @thefemalelead Instagram

  • Grace and Grit by Ken Wilbur

Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your questions or reflections so drop us a line. If you like this podcast, please rate, review and share it. It all helps spread the word we appreciate it.

Episode 24: Simplicity, An Inside Job

In this episode we explore simplicity. When it looks like we are up against a mountain of things to worry about, think about and manage, we often find other people's advice, at best unhelpful and often just irritating. We wanted to explore whether there is a simpler way.

Here’s what we explored:

  • when people try and fix us or our problems it's not helpful, it can be disempowering

  • what about not offering solutions to others?

  • what if we have faith that others can figure things out?

  • what if we wait to be asked for advice?

  • the simplicity and power of just being present with someone is under-estimated

  • wanting to fix others is usually about the fixer's ego

  • fixers often can't tolerate someone's else's pain or discomfort

  • fixing is often about the fixer feeling better

  • to have someone sit with you when you are hurt, confused or angry is incredibly powerful

  • Carla talks about an initial conversation she has with prospective clients where she doesn't coach but listens deeply and asks questions

  • what if we don't need a bag of tools and techniques to deal with work, family or finances?

  • what if bringing the simplicity of listening with a tender, open-heart is all we need?

  • a psychological relaxation is a kind of dropping down under our thoughts rather than trying to control or argue with our thoughts

  • listening to understand means listening with an open minded curiosity

  • when we are too in love with our own great ideas we stop listening

  • when people are going through difficult life challenges, we can worry about what to say or do.

  • Just show up and be present and see what occurs

  • support (for ourselves and others) can be incredibly simple

  • sometimes we don't need words, so much is carried on the feeling, more than we realise

  • in a constricted tense mind, it's almost impossible to come up with solutions

  • also in a numb, zoned out mind, problems can seem overwhelming

  • that deeper, peaceful feeling is never far away

  • we can discover the possibility of a little reboot at any odd moment

  • gentle encouragement to look towards a deeper experience

  • trying to force our mind into any particular state tends to just get in the way - more busy thinking

  • how is it we can switch out of a low mood for example, when we have a work call?

  • fresh thought gives us a fresh experience

  • if you deeply realise that, it begins to change your relationship to how you feel

  • state of mind is fluid: notice how much it changes through the day

  • when you feel state of mind gives us an experience of irritability

  • if you try to solve a problem from that irritable state, everything you look at will be experienced as irritating

  • what about long term depression, how do you get over that?

  • there is a deeper dimension that is beyond or before your mood

  • when we begin to see that all our feelings are coming from inside of us, there is a freedom in recognising that

  • often we add a pile of judgement, analysis and shame on how we feel and so we have the experience of being shamed, wrong, not good enough

  • grieving is healthy, it's a way of coming back to equilibrium if we allow ourselves to experience it wholeheartedly

  • then it doesn't feel as sticky

  • our psychological system will come back to equilibrium

  • there is a way to feel more grounded through what we think of as difficult emotions

  • when we expand into how we feel, huge arms of love wrapped around whatever we are feeling: grief, mean-ness

  • we are participants and creators in the experience we are having

  • as we get insights around where our experience is coming from, our relationship to our moods begins to change

  • our capacity to feel, to feel love, and appreciate everyday beauty, expands

  • the need to control begins to fall away

  • the control, analysis, and judgment takes so much energy

  • wonder about that still space before our thoughts and feelings

  • we touch that space all the time, it's ordinary, but we overlook it

Quotes and Reference

  • Adyashanti - on many social media platforms

Episode 23: Looking Outside Yourself for Belonging Can Drive Loneliness

In this episode we explore belonging and loneliness. We all want to belong. There seems to be so much disconnection in the world, not digitally but in our own minds, there can be a deep sense of aloneness. Without the possibility to be among people and have that physical comfort of being together, many feel isolated and lack community. But what is that desire to belong and where does that sense of belonging really come from?

Here’s what we explored:

  • why do we all want to belong?

  • we want to feel safe, accepted, and secure

  • the feeling of aloneness can be acute and seem unbearable

  • we often gravitate to things, environments, groups of people where we think we could belong

  • when those options are shut down, you get thrown back on yourself

  • if we're used to filling our days with company and activity and projects, it can be a very uncomfortable place to be

  • is there a deeper sense of belonging we've missed in our busyness?

  • not to say that human contact is not a deep human need and being deprived of it has an impact

  • it's common for people not to enjoy their own company, in fact, we can go to great lengths to avoid being alone with ourselves

  • we are pack animals and the brain wants to find safety in a tribe

  • cults can appeal to that desire to belong and connect

  • what is the real source of connection and belonging?

  • we forget that we are animals, we are a part of nature

  • getting out into nature can be a way to get back in contact with a deeper dimension of being

  • it's interesting to notice, there will be places in our lives where we instinctively get settled and curious, for us that is when we are in conversation with clients

  • we may experience a deeper sense of connection out in nature or when doing hobbies or with loved ones or pets

  • Juliet wonders do we just revert to old patterns of thought when we are alone?

  • do we, or could we extend that same interest and curiosity to ourselves when we are at large in our own minds?

  • 'pondering' feels much nicer than 'ruminating' which suggests grinding and old habits of thought

  • there is a deeper dimension, it's an ordinary, everyday occurrence, when we drop out of that habitual thought, even if just for a moment

  • in that deeper dimension, there is no sense of being alone or not alone

  • within the mental chatter, we can feel everything: lonely, bored, fed up but it's ever-changing

  • is this time nudging us and sometimes kicking us to go inward

  • do we fear that depth? Sometimes we love the idea; sometimes we avoid it at all costs

  • sometimes people get so so busy and then if they stop, they get bored and are unwilling or unable to sit with that boredom

  • how can anything fresh can arise when we fill our heads with constant noise and distraction (internal or external)

  • that desire to stay busy can come from not wanting to hang out with dark, overwhelming thoughts - we want to feel better - who wouldn't want to do that?

  • those little hits we get from e.g. cake, our favourite show, alcohol, nicotine, exercise, give us a brief moment of respite but it never lasts (and we know that)

  • Juliet used to measure how she was doing by how she felt - thinking that she SHOULD be feeling good

  • there's something better than feeling better

  • there's something more reliable than feeling better

  • sitting on the bank of ourselves, we may touch on a space where we don't need to feel better

  • to be in a foul mood, to know you're in a foul mood and to know also that you're okay

  • whereas if we can't stand how we feel, we often go into overdrive and vomit over others and feel self-righteous doing so

  • when we let go of the urgent desire to feel better, ironically things don't matter so much and things move through more easily

  • if all you've got is 'how you feel' then you're going to gives those feelings a lot of weight and meaning (about you, others, and the world)

  • it makes sense you're going to employ all kinds of strategies to feel better

  • when you realise there's something beyond how you feel, your moods don't matter so much

  • you can feel more intensely, more wholeheartedly but not suffer so much

  • we started this podcast because it feels there's so much superficiality, fakeness, spiritual bypassing and we wanted to bring something more real to people

  • when Carla was a fundamentalist Christian she was searching for that happy place where she would get enlightened and never feel bad again

  • enlightenment is not about never feeling sad again or facing loss or pain

  • a deeper part of ourselves knows this to be true

  • the search itself can lead to so much suffering, taking us away from our own wisdom, our own 'soft animal body' as Mary Oliver says

  • if we don't pay attention to all the meaning we make out of our feelings and moods, they get less sticky

  • a headache could just be a headache, not personal, not imbued with meaning, just a headache

  • we get to respond to the pain with common sense rather than piling on lots of meaning and adding huge amounts of suffering

  • we still get caught up in the big fat juicy stories but we wake up quicker

  • with physical pain, for example, we can reach for a story because we want to feel better by making something justified, or, more often than not, we reach for the dramatic stories that have us as the villain

  • when we get wise to our stories, see them for what they are, we find we can be less attached to them

  • it only makes sense to try and control what we think and feel and worse try to control what others think and feel when we don't realise there is a deeper dimension that is always there

  • Life is always living us, the only thing that takes us away from a felt sense of that, is getting caught up in our stories

  • the more we notice and appreciate that deeper sense of life pulsing through us, the more we get eyes for it, the more present it becomes to us

  • that deeper sense is like a buoyancy aid through the turbulence

  • belonging to a group whether that's a family, religious, work or other community is often conditional on conforming to rules and beliefs

  • Carla talks about her time in a fundamentalist Christian Church that threatened to excommunicate her because she was sleeping with her boyfriend

  • In terms of evolution, it is important that the tribe has certain rules and understandings so you can live peaceably together

  • Carla felt more spiritually connected when she left the Church and got more connected up with Nature and herself

  • wanting to belong can be like a craving

  • groups often form around shared concepts and beliefs

  • organising around shared values can be helpful

  • when we have an experience of feeling connected in a deeper way, nature can reflect that

  • when we feel a sense of expansiveness, compassion and love, what we interact with, reflects that even if it is loss or sadness

  • sometimes our need to belong can over-ride our common sense concerns about what might be going on in a group

  • the concept of connectedness is very different from the heartfelt knowing of that connectedness

  • as we get a sense of that connectedness at a heart level, perhaps we get more discerning as we realise a sense of belonging doesn't come from anything external but from deep within

  • being able to discern when we are trying to fulfill needs from the wrong source is a wonderful thing as it leads to a less frantic relationship with all the diversions and distractions on offer

  • that craving to belong can lead us to go along with toxic practices that are not good for us or for society in general

  • we are not trying to convince people of this deeper dimension, you have to realise it for yourself

  • we, Carla and Juliet, are in the business of pointing people back home

  • people are waking up more and more

  • the more people go through life open-hearted, willing to engage more wholeheartedly with their own emotions and other people's emotions, the more we begin to see the person just like you, in front of you, with the same hopes and fears

  • there is no doubt that people are suffering at many levels, often directly from man-made causes and urgent practical help is needed. If we can help, do so.

  • at a deeper level, real sustainable change lies in a change of heart, one person at a time

  • when we are waking up, there can be a lot of discomfort or a place of wobbliness because we're not yet grounded

  • to integrate new insights, there is a need to stay with the wobbliness and not turn away

  • even if we do turn away, avoid or fight it, there will be more opportunities

  • there is such gratitude available as we reflect on what going deeper brings: more compassion, open-heartedness, clarity, and wisdom

  • there is more available for us as we go deeper inwards

Quotes and References

  • Wild Geese a poem, by Mary Oliver

Thank you for listening. What are you seeing around belonging? We'd love to hear your questions or feedback so drop us a line. We'd love this podcast to reach a wider audience, so please like and share it. It all helps and we appreciate it.

Episode 22: Getting Real Around Money

In this episode, Juliet and I explore the topic of money. A real hot topic for most people. We get vulnerable around our experience with money and riff on this topic to see what we might see fresh around abundance and scarcity. As educated, white women, we acknowledge we are speaking from a place of privilege around money and yet still want to explore to see what else we can discover that might be helpful for listeners. We also want to acknowledge that we had some connectivity issues which led to some audio distortions from time to time. Thank you for your patience.

Here’s what we explored:

  • when we get curious we may notice hidden biases around money: judgement towards those with lots of money and/or judgement towards those without money

  • our beliefs around money are often inherited from our families and cultures: disdain, desire, disavowal, resentment, fear, discomfort, deep need

  • thinking around money can be laden with judgement and take up a huge amount of mental energy

  • our money beliefs are often contradictory and unhelpful in our day to day life

  • as we pay less attention to our beliefs, they tend to quieten down

  • the level of anxious thinking is not determined by how much money you have

  • both extreme wealth and poverty can be accompanied by a feeling of scarcity

  • a feeling of abundance comes, less from WHAT you have and more from your relationship to what you have

  • we recognize that there are many who are held down by systems of oppression which directly impact on their health, education and economic security

  • we recognize, as white, educated women, it is a form of privilege to be able to self-sabotage ourselves around money

  • and yet, we all have the possibility of connection with something bigger than ourselves

  • many people in our world are suffering extreme hardship and opening our hearts to see where we can offer practical help, is common sense

  • to create a world that is equitable where we share resources with everyone requires a change of heart on a mass scale

  • fear of not having enough food, money, energy or love can leave us utterly destitute inside however much money we have

  • that craving is a longing for connection which is not found outside ourselves

  • get curious about your definition of abundance - there's no guarantee a feeling of abundance is to be found in material goods

  • in agriculture, fields lie fallow to help maintain the soil in good heart

  • unlimited growth, individually or as nations, simply doesn't work, it requires stimulants to keep going

  • a deeper connection with self, others and nature is what brings a richer more abundant feeling which isn't tied to what we have in material terms

  • simply recognizing what we are doing with our minds, that takes us away from 'being in good heart" is more helpful than 'rugby tackling' our beliefs around money

Quotes and References

Episode 21: Restoration and Renewal

The New Year is well underway and we thought, a couple of weeks into 2021, the theme of restoration and renewal might be a beautiful topic to explore, recorded on the Winter Solstice (in the Northern Hemisphere). The Winter Solstice is a time to pause and look up, away from our day to day concerns and allow hope and optimism to bubble up. The human spirit is a remarkable thing. We can admire what's possible and get curious about what renewal and restoration could mean. What are the seeds? What is possible? This year could take us into despair or numbing ourselves, tuning out, feeling overwhelmed by the bigness of the challenges we face collectively.

Here's what we explored:

  • is the New Year a time for something other than personal goals and resolutions?

  • recognizing the gift of presence: to ourselves, our clients, and our losses

  • when we are present, time and space fall away

  • in presence we find renewal and then we return to the fray of life, again and again

  • being present to our experience, whatever that is, including grief

  • in presence, we find openness and tenderness,

  • we don't have to fix or control, there is a sense of relief

  • in presence, we find the wisdom to know what's next

  • leaders can create a culture where it's okay to grieve, to have ebbs and flows in productivity, to embrace our humanity

  • the push to produce more and more is not replicated in nature

  • clocks and timetables are useful for very specific purposes eg making appointments but so much in life happens independent of clocks

  • the only thing that makes something good or bad, valuable or not, is our judgment, made of thought

  • being present gives us more access to common sense which guides us beautifully

  • grief and gratitude are two sides of one coin. When you make space for the loss, you also make space for the gratitude

  • we often want to fix bad feelings, get through them quickly, but if we can pause and honor what is, there is a richness available

  • when old griefs come back around, maybe they are coming up for air, for healing

  • when we get really lost in our painful stories about ourselves, others, the past, and the future, we suffer

  • to really see how human beings create stories all the time and our stories are ever-changing is a huge insight

  • when we recognize the illusory nature of our stories, we get to hold them more lightly, let them flow through us

  • not using 'getting present' as a way to avoid our feelings or bypass them

  • presence and tenderness are so healing

  • by honoring the experience you are in right now, you are honoring Life

  • we are built to experience Life coming through us

  • what occurs to you around renewal and restoration?

Quotes and References

  • 'The Reith Lectures, Dr Mark Carney, How We Get What We Value - transcript

Episode 20: What if How We Feel Doesn't Matter?

This was such a fun exploration! Juliet and I laughed at the topic, as the idea that our feelings don't matter, would have been met with outrage by both of us in our younger days. "WHAT, you cannot be serious!?!?!??! We both confess to having drama queen tendencies and would have been affronted if anyone suggested our feelings didn't matter. We both believed our emotions were telling us very important information about how we were doing (or the world, or others, our work, relationships, lifestyle or whatever) and that low or bad feelings definitely looked like they had to be dealt with.

Here’s what we explored:

  • we share an understanding that how we feel is not a reliable indicator of who we are, it's just how we feel in that moment

  • they come and go

  • experiment and see for yourself if this is true

  • it is not 'feel the fear and do it anyway'

  • it comes from a real knowing there is something beyond our feeling state

  • some collapse into emotions others vigorously suppress them

  • this is not over-riding or avoiding emotions, it is about tuning in to something deeper

  • 'Thought screams; wisdom whispers', Debbie Trent

  • wanting to feel peaceful all the time is a trap

  • do you interpret feelings like anxiety as a sign of problems (in your life)?

  • what if they are just emotions moving through you?

  • what if we don't need to analyze or judge our feelings so much?

  • everyone is looking for peace of mind, ease, connection, right?

  • are we looking in the wrong place, looking in our emotions, when there is something beyond them?

  • a sense of 'all shall be well' is when everything relaxes: time and space disappear and our emotions too?

  • people love clouds, people flock to watch the sunsets

  • sunsets without clouds are not that interesting

  • storm clouds make for extraordinary sunsets

  • our emotions are like clouds

  • when we don't over-identify with our emotions and simply let them be, move through us, they can become incredibly rich experiences, like grief for example

  • being wholeheartedly in the experience without paying so much attention to the accompanying commentary or story

  • the sun illuminates the clouds even on the darkest day

  • It's like the sun represents consciousness, that which lights up all our emotions, allows us to feel them,

  • Juliet says she would have made a fabulous opera diva if only she could sing

  • her experience was full of drama, everything felt intense, she invested her emotions with maximum importance. Carla too!

  • not making those feelings WHO I am

  • an emotion in and of itself is neither good nor bad

  • we can see that because some people seek out and pay for intense sensations e.g. going bungy jumping to feel fear

  • other fear eg anxiety

  • it's fascinating to realize the impact of our naming of feelings and the meaning we put on them

  • one person can interpret tingling as excitement; another as fear

  • a little bit of stress can give you a little pep

  • in any given moment, the possibility for what we can experience, is infinite

  • know that the mind can change

  • whatever you think or feel in this moment: KNOW it is going to change

  • whether you pop out quickly or hang out in it for weeks, at some point it changes

  • if we didn't care HOW we felt, what would that be like?

  • the psychological system is always seeking equilibrium

  • if a pond is churned up and you've lost something in there, the thing to do is go sit on the bank and wait for the water to settle

  • give ourselves a little tender loving care, attend to ourselves gently

  • stop stirring up the pond, sit on the bank of yourself in wonder

  • we touch moments when we are unself-conscious

  • in those moments gratitude, compassion, gentleness flow more naturally

  • so easy to overlook the quiet moments

  • when we take our emotions a little less personally we can more fully experience them

  • if we paid less attention to our stories about how we feel we would be free to simply experience them in glorious technicolor

Quotes and References

  • 'Thoughts scream; wisdom whispers', Debbie Trent

  • 'All shall be well, all shall be well, all manner of things shall be well' Julian of Norwich

  • Pema Chödrön - books and videos

  • A Beautiful Mind is a 2001 American biographical drama film based on the life of the American mathematician John Nash, a Nobel Laureate in Economics and Abel Prize winner. The film was directed by Ron Howard, from a screenplay written by Akiva Goldsman. Starring Russell Crowe, Jennifer Connelly, and Ed Harris.

Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your questions or feedback so drop us a line. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share on your networks as we'd love more people to get the chance to tune in, slow down and listen to their own wisdom, especially at these times.

Episode 19: Being in Limbo

Limbo can feel like being in suspended animation and often feels uncomfortable which those of us who have control freakery tendencies can find particularly challenging. It is experiencing and acknowledging the unknown. We like to buy into the illusion of certainty and that has been disrupted for many at this time. It can lead to a roller coaster of emotions as that illusion gets shattered. It's interesting to notice how, at times, we are absolutely okay with uncertainty and other times we want to figure it all out.

Here’s what we explored:

  • we are horrible at predicting the future

  • we can make up very negative stories about the future

  • those stories can disturb and discombobulate us

  • we ruminate about the past or worry about the future when we're in a low state of mind

  • in a better state of mind, the unknown can be exciting

  • when we feel insecure the things we worry about look true

  • in a better state of mind, those problems aren't present

  • trying to pretend we don't feel insecure isn't the answer

  • acknowledging when we feel insecure that the problems look true is a kind of honoring

  • it's interesting to notice how uncomfortable we are with being uncomfortable

  • when we feel insecure what exactly is threatened?

  • Carla notices how much she dislikes physical discomfort - she works very hard to mitigate discomfort

  • curiosity is a very valuable thing - it's like taking off the blinders.

  • lack of curiosity creates tunnel vision

  • discomfort can manifest emotionally, psychologically, physically, and spiritually

  • a feeling of wanting to crawl out of our skin

  • who is suffering when we feel discomfort?

  • it is the mind that is suffering, not who we are at our essence

  • do we become what we are feeling? We feel irritated so we become a ball of irritation

  • we are not experiencing what is out there, we are experiencing our perception of what's out there

  • like with an old outboard motor, you can take the cover off and diagnose what's going on

  • when we don't understand how the mind works, we are at the mercy of how we feel and we don't have any agency

  • even when we do understand that we are at the effect of what looks true to us, not the world out there..... we can forget ...... and we do ...... again and again

  • when everything we perceive is self-referenced ie what does this say about me? and interestingly when we're not doing that and we are just experiencing life, unfiltered.

  • noticing what happens when we aren't making stories with us at the center of them

  • if you go out and sit with a tree and remove the label 'tree' and just experience it fresh

  • when we experience the label we are not seeing the living thing in front of us

  • same with people, we stop seeing the person, you are seeing all your opinions about them

  • the story of two people in a room when someone comes into the room with a Doberman. One person grew up with Dobermans and loves them and has a feeling of warmth and excitement. The other person was chased by a Doberman when she was a child and fell off her bike.

  • she feels fear when she sees the Doberman. Which person is right?

  • It's easy to think both are right but what if neither is right?

  • Neither person knows this particular dog. If it is an attack dog, it doesn't matter how many good feelings you have about this dog, it is likely to attack. If, on the other hand, it is a service dog, it doesn't matter how frightened you are, it is unlikely to attack.

  • in the same way, with people, we operate from our preconceptions about others so we think because that person voted in a particular way, we think we know how they are going to react

  • and don't we also do this with ourselves? We think we are a particular way: I always do this or never do that and that means it will go this way

  • what we are doing is referencing who we've been in the past and we can get stuck - 'this is how it's always gone before. I can't help this, it's just who I am'

  • it limits our ability to see this place of limbo as a fresh opportunity where anything could happen

  • we can't predict the future, so we reference who we believe ourselves to be with all our perceived limitations

  • it's uncomfortable and frightening

  • what happens, when we get curious and see limbo as full of possibility?

  • we often unconsciously go to our filing system and pull up what we ALREADY know about others and ourselves

  • and we can create fixedness and limitation

  • if we realize all those things we take ourselves to be, all our opinions, are changeable

  • when most of us look at ourselves we see we are full of inconsistencies and contradictions - that's just being human

  • there's an opportunity in discomfort to see where we are bumping up against illusions of ourselves or the world

  • imagine, what if 'how we feel doesn't matter?'

  • when we feel insecure, how 'I' feel is SO important

  • when we're not feeling insecure: there is much less of 'I', more live and let live, more freedom, more ease

  • is there a clue there? That the 'I' is the one that creates all the drama

  • what if our emotions are not personal?

  • what's the feedback system that tells us our emotions are intolerable? the personal mind

  • when we forget ourselves, when there's no 'me' in the equation, we experience freedom

  • the mind is the author of the experience and at the effect of the experience too

  • the mind is incredibly powerful

  • if you are finding limbo stressful and overwhelming right now: just know that decisions will get made, events will happen. When we look back we see all the times we've navigated difficulties and even forgotten about them a few days, weeks or months later

  • ideas and insights come in whether or not we are aware of them

  • there's less to worry about than we think: we can't know the future

  • when you are ramped up, can you sit on the bank of yourself so the stirred up pond can come back to clarity?

  • stirred up emotions will pass, especially if we can leave them alone, they do so quicker

  • it doesn't generally help trying to figure things out when we are stressed out

  • in the middle of limbo have kindness for yourself and for others

  • it's not that everything works out or there is necessarily a happily ever after

  • Sydney Banks, 'life is a contact sport'

  • when we can engage wholeheartedly with life - that's not about the externals - there has been an internal shift

Episode 18: Shutting Down and Heart Tenderness

Juliet and I show up in this episode feeling some tenderness but we get curious about what we know helps and what doesn't help when things feel difficult. We recognize that when we get insights or breakthroughs - they rarely come from trying to figure things out. We see how anxiety about the future isn't helpful. We explore what we see that does help: shifts in consciousness.

Here’s what we explored:

  • noticing where our hearts are hard: 'how can people do that? how can people say that?

  • hard hearts tend to create judgment

  • we all have the capacity to be compassionate and hard-hearted

  • can we see how we're the same?

  • trying to be a better person or a better citizen rarely creates change

  • a shift in consciousness goes to the heart of things and transforms our experience of self and others

  • sometimes we have to hit the bottom before we can breakthrough

  • there is a kind of disintegration, a devolving

  • the caterpillar completely disintegrates - that is part of its soul's code

  • we are afraid of devolution and disintegration

  • jumping in to try and fix people when something is trying to die and be born, can get in the way

  • the disintegration phase can be frightening, lonely, and sad and that's all legitimate

  • that is understandable: you are letting go of a way that no longer serves

  • we have a soul's code, just as the acorn has the blue-print to be an oak.

  • surrendering to our soul's code

  • a period of anger and resentment can give way to a period of sadness which is a relief

  • when we break open and allow ourselves to embody our feelings it can be a very raw and tender place as we wait for what might take root

  • and when we want to avoid that tender place, we can use things to numb us out, like social media, alcohol, etc

  • the hardening, softening, ripeness, rawness, tenderness are all cycles of being

  • maybe life is not linear but cyclical like everything else in nature

  • winter is a time of gathering in, going into hibernation

  • in spring the soil warms up and new life emerges

  • as we find ourselves returning to old patterns of thought or circumstance looks to be an invitation for our relationship to our experience to transform

  • look for the gifts in experience from simple curiosity, a gift for its own sake not for self-improvement

  • what is there that is not the story of my conditioning, something that is just new and fresh?

  • all around and within us we see the hard shells and we see the potential if we can just break open

  • the hard shell is all about fear - we're just scared

  • when we see the fear, we can have so much compassion for self and others

  • the hardness of heart is made of thought: fear is made of thought

  • we all have the capacity to have hard hearts and soft hearts

  • hardness of heart is not fixed: it comes and goes like the ebb and flow of the tide

  • the heart opening is just a thought away, knowing that fear can dissolve at any moment makes everything up for grabs

  • seeing ourselves in others and them in us

  • when we're in battle, it is fear fighting fear: we're both fighting phantoms; we don't see the other person, we see our fear

  • George Pransky in his book, The Relationship Handbook tells of being in the military and how, when there is an argument, combatants were made to stand one each side of a window, and clean the glass. Invariably, the conflict fell away as they began to really see each other

  • Carla talks of recognizing that the feeling of hopelessness is simply a feeling and how that knowing is really helpful.

  • Seeing that a feeling of hopelessness can lift all of a sudden, for no apparent reason

  • the misunderstanding that the strength of feeling is a measure of how urgently things need to be fixed

  • fixing feelings looks like a way to control things but in fact that control is an illusion

  • Carla talks about wanting to stay open battling with feelings of wanting to shut down or figure it out. The only thing to do is surrender and stay tender.

  • Carla recognizes she doesn't need to shut down, there is nothing to fear.

  • Juliet asks, 'Who is suffering?'

  • Recognizing the difference between 'being in the sadness' versus engaging with all the stressful thinking, 'what about this and that?'

Quotes and References

  • Book: The Soul's Code by James Hillman

  • Satday Soup for the Sista's Soul podcast by Cheri Gillings - Less fixing, more feeling

  • The Insight Space, London

  • Book: The Relationship Handbook by Dr George Pransky

“We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
Through the unknown, remembered gate
When the last of earth left to discover
Is that which was the beginning;
At the source of the longest river
The voice of the hidden waterfall
And the children in the apple-tree
Not known, because not looked for
But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
Between two waves of the sea.” T.S. Eliot

Episode 17: Getting Real About Depression and Emotions

Juliet and I are interested in riffing on simple, practical wisdom that can help us navigate this human condition which can feel heavy at times. Juliet and I both have experienced depression throughout our lives. We explore what else is possible other than either collapsing into our emotions or denying them completely. We are curious about how we have seen our experience of depression change, how our relationship to the experience can change. We explore how our experience has changed and what might account for that.

Here’s what we explored in episode 17:

  • noticing that teachers who are humble, light-hearted, and really grounded, you can experience a deep heart to heart connection without the usual personal details

  • it is our thinking that takes us out of an awareness of connection

  • when we feel a sense of connection: space opens up, in our heart, in our minds, in our day

  • when we seem to have 'lost connection', we go looking in our toolbox for techniques to help us out but they're not always helpful because they are old and stale.

  • whereas there is fresh, helpful thinking available for this moment, right here, right now

  • 'going into our head' is a place where we are cut off from connection. There's not much joy, nothing fresh there but it feels safe

  • I notice how that disconnection response takes the joy and engagement out of all parts of life and that doesn't feel okay

  • we can take a moment to be in awe of the creative nature of or coping mechanisms brought to us via the power of Thought

  • then our minds rush in to ask, 'I don't feel connected, how do I feel more connected?'

  • the only thing that takes us out of a feeling of connection is the thinking that says, "I am not connected"

  • notice the moments when our problem thinking just dissolves for example when we get on a call with a client or colleague - that was a change of thought

  • you can just let it be, if you can and if you can't, let that be!

  • once we decide how we feel is a problem, that is when we can get really stuck

  • when depression lifts (often it feels like it just dispersed) is when we get fresh thinking

  • fresh thinking can happen at any time

  • whether we fight it, we collapse into it, surrender to it or transcend it, either way, it will pass

  • analysis and judgment can plunge us into shame

  • sometimes when we're struggling, we can realise perhaps it is lack of sleep - we're exhausted

  • it's helpful when you remember all the things you've come through in the past

  • think of the ancient live oaks, still standing for 300 years, through hurricanes and all kinds of weather

  • they began as tiny acorns. In an acorn is the blueprint of the mighty oak. But it didn't happen overnight

  • think of the rosebud: you can't force open that bud, it will open in its own time

  • relax, let life unfold, we don't need to figure it out.

  • life is living the tree, the bloom and us

  • 'let wisdom come to you', says Christine Heath

  • Juliet tells her story of experiencing depression and her seeing the stages she went through

  • massive resistance ensued and she was in battle but she noticed how the feeling is a guide

  • exhaustion and numbness followed

  • then the collapsing began to happen and it started to look hopeless

  • she noticed the fine distinction between collapsing and surrendering

  • surrendering was a kind of acceptance and there was a release

  • she strummed her ukulele and the tears came (which also looks comical in retrospect)

  • the less we care about how we feel the less it matters and the less it sticks

  • Juliet was obsessed with how she felt and believed there was a lot of valuable information in how she felt

  • it looked like there was useful information in my feelings: about myself, about the world, about other people

  • when we realize there is something bigger than our feelings then our feelings don't matter so much

  • as our heart opens and we connect with something bigger - it's that which cleans up our stuckness

  • you can't make yourself surrender

  • you can't make yourself have an insight

  • but we can settle down and open to the possibility of insight

  • the song 'Don't worry, be happy' used to make Carla so mad as it felt so dismissive and invalidating of her emotions

  • knowing that when our thinking changes we will see things differently is helpful even if it doesn't immediately pop us out of our mood

  • acceptance and allowing are hugely helpful and as we see deeper these naturally arise more

  • excessive gentleness, listening, and curiosity

  • when someone is in distress and we meet them and our heart is open, we don't know what we're going to say but we can trust that people will feel the love

  • you can't think your way or force your way into acceptance and surrender

  • there is a deeper feeling and connection available to us

  • knowing something else will come around is so helpful

  • when we all caught up, we can't feel our divinity, only our heavy humanness. What Juliet and Carla can do is see and connect with the divinity in their clients

  • we want to share and explore the divinity we see in each other and our listeners

  • Juliet appreciates Carla's willingness to show the listeners how we can be in our messy human-ness one minute and then pop out of it

  • Juliet shares how much energy she put into hiding how she felt, hiding how much of a mess she was and how exhausting that was

  • Juliet sees that in the act of trying to hide her messiness (or human-ness), she created so much suffering

Quotes and References

  • “Things falling apart is a kind of testing and also a kind of healing. We think that the point is to pass the test or to overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don’t really get solved. They come together and they fall apart. Then they come together again and fall apart again. It’s just like that. The healing comes from letting there be room for all of this to happen: room for grief, for relief, for misery, for joy.”
    Pema Chödrön, When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times

  • "Every storm runs out of rain" Maya Angelou

  • "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein

  • "Let wisdom come to you", Christine Heath

  • Don't Worry, Be Happy, by Bobby McFerrin 1988

Episode 16: Focus, Distraction, and Those Difficult People

I came on this episode and shared how distracted I’m feeling after being intensely focused on creating a course. When this episode was recorded the US election was set for the following evening. I dreamed of the election. Though I often advise my clients not to focus on the past or the future, there are times it can feel hard to stay present. Here is the only moment we ever have. So today we explore what more we can discover around focus and distraction. Juliet shares when she feels very distracted, she finds it helpful if someone nudges her and kind of gives her permission to drop out of that busy mind. We both enjoy showing up as we are on these calls. We have no attachment to what happens in these episodes nor how people may or may not receive the shows. That gives us great freedom. Take a listen.

Episode 15: Are We Too Serious?

Last week, when we explored radical joy, seriousness came up quite a bit. We get curious about the tendency to be a tad too serious about life. There seems to be a lot of seriousness around many issues in our world right now. How helpful is getting serious? Why is it we think we should get serious about serious topics because otherwise, we're not taking them seriously?

Episode 14: Is Radical Joy More Powerful Than Seriousness?

Carla and Juliet get curious about radical joy and seriousness. Could joy be more helpful than so much seriousness? It does seem counter-intuitive but is worth the exploration. After elections, division, war, our neighbours are still our neighbours and that's one place we can see the possibility of connecting although it feels hard. Underneath we all want the same thing: love and connection.

Episode 13: Divisiveness, Anger, Grief | What's on the Other Side?

Recorded 6 days after the US presidential election, Carla shows up vulnerable and raw, sharing her experience of the election week, consciously going down the rabbit hole and the stress she's felt. Her recognition of what the stress has done to her body and curiosity to explore the emotional reactions including sadness, anger, and grief around her perception of the huge divisiveness going on in the US at this time. If you feel the divisiveness within and without, listen to this episode.